Wednesday, November 09, 2005

Listen Up, Americhurch!

The groundswell of discontent with the flaccidity, vapidity and self-indulgence of Americhurch is widening and deepening. And it's not just the "burnouts" and "backsliders" like me.

Witness this post from Adam at for instance. Adam and I don't see eye to eye on everything; he is a seminary student at a pretty conservative evangelical college in Texas and is probably, I think it fair to say, conservative politically and theologically. But he's fed up too:

I am a leader, I am from a generation of leaders. We are guys and girls who are sick and tired of churches that are more like businesses and country clubs than they are like communities of faith.

We are tired of the name of Christ being trampled and trodden under foot, not by pagans, but by professed Christian's stupidity.

We are tired of Christians being seen as stupid men with stupid hair standing up with stupid smiles and saying that 'God loves you, he wants you to have your best life now...'

We are tired of bumper stickers that are nothing more than crappy cliches that make pagans laugh at our stupidity. We are tired of these bumper stickers being on the very same car that has a middle finger being stuck out the window.

We are tired of 'evangelicals' getting all up in arms when a man wants to marry another man, yet we say nothing when a man leaves his wife, and then his second wife, and then his third...

We are tired of being cozy within our big homes while our brothers and sisters across the sea are dying within prison cells.

We are tired of having to go to the pagans to have our minds challenged through books and literature because all that is within our 'Christian' bookstores is how to have a happy life, and how to pray a mantra that gives the reader a successful life.

Preach it, brother. There's not a hair's width between us on this issue.

I admit I spend a lot of time just bagging on Americhurch, and it deserves every ounce of it. I have no idea if anyone beyond those who already agree with me pay it much mind, though. But if you are in the halls of influence in Americhurch, you best be paying attention when the future leadership, the ones who are being groomed to take over your sanctuaries and seminaries, start losing respect for you.


At 6:44 PM, Blogger BruceD said...

That was very encouraging. Thanks!

At 3:33 AM, Blogger nathaniel adam king said...

[The groundswell of discontent with the flaccidity, vapidity and self-indulgence of Americhurch is widening and deepening.]

That sentence is greatness. I do not even know what flaccidity or vapidity are. HA

And let me attempt to do a little sofystry here.

You think the americhurch is going in the wrong direction. Therefore, you rebuke the americhurch.

Let me draw a parallel.

A Christian is going in the wrong direction. Therefore, you rebuke the Christian.

Hmm...seems pretty convincing to me for church discipline. ;)

At 3:33 AM, Blogger nathaniel adam king said...

Thank you for the props.

At 5:54 AM, Blogger Zeke said...

Trying to get a rise out of me on the church discipline issue, Adam? There you go with that sophistry again... there's a big difference between the life-giving rebuke and the life-destroying condemnation. In a way, it can be said that the heart of wisdom is knowing when and how to rebuke so that it builds up rather than tears down.

Unless you are talking about a flaccid, vapid, self-indulgent human institution, in which case tearing down might be just what the doctor ordered.

At 7:28 AM, Blogger nathaniel adam king said...

I would most definately agree that there is a difference in life-giving rebuke and life-destroying condemnation. I would never even dream of advocating the life-destroying condemnation. Hence the reason why I advocate church discipline. :)

And it is sofystry not sophistry. I am a sofyst not a sophist. :):)

And I hope to God you never have that many labels with that many negative connotations to it to give me...

At 11:24 AM, Blogger ninjanun said...

I agree with both sofyst and Zeke on this one (if you squint, as the Pete would say, you're basically saying the same thing): a life-giving rebuke to a person is one thing, but a corrupt institution is not the same as a person...therefore, sometimes the only recourse one has, after fighting with all your might for what you know is right, and still having the institution leave you naked out in the cold, is to shake the sand off your sandals and go somewhere you'll find warmth and truth. You can reject the institution, run by (hopefully) good people caught up and blinded by a corrupt system, but still offer love and a life-line to those individuals still "trapped" in it. Jesus doesn't redeem institutions; he redeems people. I think this is what Ghandi was getting at when he said, Love the sinner, but hate the sin. (Yes! Ghandi is the one who said that; it's not in the bible). Ghandi had a better perception of corporate evil than most individualist American Christians have, so the phrase, seen in light of his broader understanding of sin, has an entirely different meaning than how we as Christians often apply it. We can hate the sin which permeates every level of our society (even our churches) and understand that people operate blindly in those sinful systems, but still love them and seek to open their eyes to that reality.

Hope I didn't ramble too long, Zeke. :)

At 3:20 PM, Blogger nathaniel adam king said...

Ghandi said that? That is greatness...(devious smile).

I am glad God hates both the sinner and the sin (Psa 5:5)


(Sorry, I had to attempt to create a controversy.)

At 8:03 PM, Anonymous Mrs Zeke said...

Babe I had a huge long post all typed up but you know what?

I am not posting it cause I don't think it would matter. So to rid myself of my frustration of this subject I say this and yes it is shorter then the other post I was going to write.

When we Christians who are so comfortable in our lives become uncomfortable enough to

1. walk for days without the promise of food or water risking getting shot to hear a few pages from the book of John

2. know our family or friend got boiling water poured down there throats for a home church meeting and still show up

3.Care less about our stuff and more about tithes

4. Don't need the sermon to be about me

5. Want to know the real answer to "how are you" and make time to listen

etc etc etc

then we can point fingers at the "church" but even then I say this if there were no people buying into the crap saying what is right instead what is accepted then none of the issues would be in play. We are guilty not the "church" the "church is a sum of us.

If all went to church to worship God and be in real fellowship with Christian brothers and sisters
as well as listen to those that are not Christian yet but are trying to find there way, these americhurch things would not be present.

We the collective Christians of America are the church. We go to a Church together to worship and be helpers to each other, to hear God's word and sing to Him.

If that is why we went to church the rest of the crap would end.
It is not and we know this cause Benny fills a huge venue and the crystal cath never has enough seats for there Christmas show and TBN is not going broke.

So go to church and change it. Go to church and ask God what you/I can do to help, Go to church and tell God you love Him enough to set aside some time, Go to church and listen to the Pastor as if you have never heard it before.
Don't get tired of the mess jump in it and refuse to accept it cause its easy to stand outside and give reasons why your outside.

am I being mean? Hope not im just tired of myself and of all the things human.

I wonder will I get into trouble with God when I die because I never settled for being human? I am not diss'n it its just so dang myopic at times.

Love you Zeke and I miss you painfully

Still not spell check sorry I would have to care to put it on my system

Did I tell you I love you?


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